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	<title>Comments on: A New Kind of Incubation Model. Part III</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/</link>
	<description>a perspective as seen from the trenches.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:22:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3236</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3236</guid>
		<description>Arvind: The only thing a collaboration between two companies in the same space would give is the ability to cover multiple cities quickly (look at the case of what Yahoo! local is doing to companies such as Tolmolbol, but totally taking over the turf since Tolmolbol hasnt been able to scale and dominate quickly). A collaboration would certainly enable that, and the process to build and scale the business in other cities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arvind: The only thing a collaboration between two companies in the same space would give is the ability to cover multiple cities quickly (look at the case of what Yahoo! local is doing to companies such as Tolmolbol, but totally taking over the turf since Tolmolbol hasnt been able to scale and dominate quickly). A collaboration would certainly enable that, and the process to build and scale the business in other cities.</p>
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		<title>By: Arvind</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3235</link>
		<dc:creator>Arvind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3235</guid>
		<description>Interesting read as always (Thanks Vijay!), and good points mostly. Since ours was one element of the example you brought up, I want to try and understand the full import of what you are saying - while the synergy between an Ordermonger.com and a yulop is obvious, I am not as clear about the hungrybangalore example, there is a significant bit of overlap between what OrderMonger and HungryBangalore have to offer (unless I am completely mistaken, which would be a huge shame). Care to elucidate with some specifics?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting read as always (Thanks Vijay!), and good points mostly. Since ours was one element of the example you brought up, I want to try and understand the full import of what you are saying &#8211; while the synergy between an Ordermonger.com and a yulop is obvious, I am not as clear about the hungrybangalore example, there is a significant bit of overlap between what OrderMonger and HungryBangalore have to offer (unless I am completely mistaken, which would be a huge shame). Care to elucidate with some specifics?</p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3195</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3195</guid>
		<description>Murali, being nice and all as a person is one factor (and people who interact with me on a regular basis know that I do enough of that in real life). But when it comes to building a business and especially when you ask someone to invest time and energy into it, or ask them to invest, or ask them to partner with you, its crucial to get the act together.

As I say, nobody is ever going to bother with what you do, till the moment when you ask something from them. And when that happens, they might as well be prepared for it.

Proto.in has nothing to do with &quot;creating awareness&quot; about entrepreneurship. There are plenty of other organizations which do that, and we partner and support organizations and the unconference movements in making such things come to life. But Proto.in does mean business, and its a platform where you come to graduate into the real world scenario where money and revenue alone makes sense.

Time to learn the rules of the game, or perish. There is no two ways about it.

PS: It is not personal. I am sure they are all wonderful people :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murali, being nice and all as a person is one factor (and people who interact with me on a regular basis know that I do enough of that in real life). But when it comes to building a business and especially when you ask someone to invest time and energy into it, or ask them to invest, or ask them to partner with you, its crucial to get the act together.</p>
<p>As I say, nobody is ever going to bother with what you do, till the moment when you ask something from them. And when that happens, they might as well be prepared for it.</p>
<p>Proto.in has nothing to do with &#8220;creating awareness&#8221; about entrepreneurship. There are plenty of other organizations which do that, and we partner and support organizations and the unconference movements in making such things come to life. But Proto.in does mean business, and its a platform where you come to graduate into the real world scenario where money and revenue alone makes sense.</p>
<p>Time to learn the rules of the game, or perish. There is no two ways about it.</p>
<p>PS: It is not personal. I am sure they are all wonderful people <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Murali</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3191</link>
		<dc:creator>Murali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3191</guid>
		<description>I have a great respect and admiration for what Proto.in has been doing. But I couldn&#039;t take this kind of distressing picture of Indian startups. It may be true. It may be a over statement. Its not just a welcome signal that to be revealed. I strongly believe in placebo effect and it would be better to build a dream and share inspiring thoughts rather.

It is very essential for entrepreneurs to be tough and all that, at this stage, it does more harm than help building a dream. When you are a kid, what you need is an dream to live no matter how poor you are doing in all areas of your life. Because, it is too early to write off a wonderful person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a great respect and admiration for what Proto.in has been doing. But I couldn&#8217;t take this kind of distressing picture of Indian startups. It may be true. It may be a over statement. Its not just a welcome signal that to be revealed. I strongly believe in placebo effect and it would be better to build a dream and share inspiring thoughts rather.</p>
<p>It is very essential for entrepreneurs to be tough and all that, at this stage, it does more harm than help building a dream. When you are a kid, what you need is an dream to live no matter how poor you are doing in all areas of your life. Because, it is too early to write off a wonderful person.</p>
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		<title>By: iqbalgandham</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3171</link>
		<dc:creator>iqbalgandham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3171</guid>
		<description>This model or should I say a flavour of it has been tried, personally I can say that I have tried to get several startups together NOT to work on different pieces of the same project but to work together in terms of mashing up, i.e hotels sites with mapping with reviews etc etc, BUT the hurdle faced, as is always the case with startups is the people. No matter which startup I have helped, consultant or ran, the problem is always the people (assuming the idea is half decent). 

The people who start it, have a inherent ego, which is to be expected, if you ask a incubation model to work where diff pieces have to fit into the overall jigsaw, what you are asking is that the teams merge together (eventually), which begs the question who leads, there are mergers (very few) most are takeovers. In fact trying to adopt this model will lead to the same headache that VC&#039;s have of getting the entrepreneur to step aside when the time is right.

I would personally just like to get all the MD/CEO/founders/whatever to actually talk to each other in the first instance, 300 plus startups each with a user base of perhaps 1000, thats 300K customers across India, thats not bad to prove a concept.

Iqbal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This model or should I say a flavour of it has been tried, personally I can say that I have tried to get several startups together NOT to work on different pieces of the same project but to work together in terms of mashing up, i.e hotels sites with mapping with reviews etc etc, BUT the hurdle faced, as is always the case with startups is the people. No matter which startup I have helped, consultant or ran, the problem is always the people (assuming the idea is half decent). </p>
<p>The people who start it, have a inherent ego, which is to be expected, if you ask a incubation model to work where diff pieces have to fit into the overall jigsaw, what you are asking is that the teams merge together (eventually), which begs the question who leads, there are mergers (very few) most are takeovers. In fact trying to adopt this model will lead to the same headache that VC&#8217;s have of getting the entrepreneur to step aside when the time is right.</p>
<p>I would personally just like to get all the MD/CEO/founders/whatever to actually talk to each other in the first instance, 300 plus startups each with a user base of perhaps 1000, thats 300K customers across India, thats not bad to prove a concept.</p>
<p>Iqbal</p>
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		<title>By: Kaushik</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3166</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaushik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3166</guid>
		<description>Very interesting points. Especially since you have having had the experience of whetting hundreds of proposals i am sure you would thinking how come this guy missed that piece which the other guy has done. If only this guy had this piece would have made a viable proposition and so on.

I think that is where the entire aspect of Angel funding comes into play and i hope there is just a deluge of angel that can come into the indian market place to bring structure and sense into the entire startup scene. I think the lack of a sufficient environment to be able to support and grow startup teams is the core issue why there is a myopic view to solving a problem. Lack of experience among the start up members needs to be necessarliy supplemented by an environment that can address this limitation. How did all of the valley startup succeed in the first place. Even me as a pretty experienced professional with signifcant exposure to the market find it a enormous task to startup. And i am not talking about funding, just the lack of information, support, mentoring, support groups just scares most of the serious ones run away and a lot of the ones that attempt are pretty flaky.

Just my 2 cents</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting points. Especially since you have having had the experience of whetting hundreds of proposals i am sure you would thinking how come this guy missed that piece which the other guy has done. If only this guy had this piece would have made a viable proposition and so on.</p>
<p>I think that is where the entire aspect of Angel funding comes into play and i hope there is just a deluge of angel that can come into the indian market place to bring structure and sense into the entire startup scene. I think the lack of a sufficient environment to be able to support and grow startup teams is the core issue why there is a myopic view to solving a problem. Lack of experience among the start up members needs to be necessarliy supplemented by an environment that can address this limitation. How did all of the valley startup succeed in the first place. Even me as a pretty experienced professional with signifcant exposure to the market find it a enormous task to startup. And i am not talking about funding, just the lack of information, support, mentoring, support groups just scares most of the serious ones run away and a lot of the ones that attempt are pretty flaky.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents</p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3161</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3161</guid>
		<description>Kamla: Can anyone be taught? Yep. Absolutely. So to quote the quote :), the key is in &quot;the development of a good class discussion&quot;. Most things unfortunately are left to chance and chaos right now, hoping that the pieces will fall in place. They are... but as per evolutionary standards, slowly.

Any any such orchestration is going to require a holistic perspective, control, and organization. Is there even anyone, even TiE, who posses such control?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kamla: Can anyone be taught? Yep. Absolutely. So to quote the quote <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> , the key is in &#8220;the development of a good class discussion&#8221;. Most things unfortunately are left to chance and chaos right now, hoping that the pieces will fall in place. They are&#8230; but as per evolutionary standards, slowly.</p>
<p>Any any such orchestration is going to require a holistic perspective, control, and organization. Is there even anyone, even TiE, who posses such control?</p>
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		<title>By: kamla bhatt</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3160</link>
		<dc:creator>kamla bhatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3160</guid>
		<description>Ah,  you missed the point. A good teacher can work with a struggling student...that is the hallmark of a good teacher. When you make a conditional statement like that ...I believe it will indeed be a great and trying challenge to find a good student. However, you will find students. 

Here is something that a recent HBS article has to say about Prof. Christensen,who devised the case method study for MBAs

&quot;Christensen believed wholeheartedly in &quot;the teachability of teaching&quot; and that &quot;a good class discussion can be developed, rather than merely left to the randomness of chance or genetic.&quot;

It is the experienced person who has the knowledge and knows the mistakes and errors he/she made when building their biz ..they have gone thro the unchartered territory as it were and learnt how to navigate the choppy waters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah,  you missed the point. A good teacher can work with a struggling student&#8230;that is the hallmark of a good teacher. When you make a conditional statement like that &#8230;I believe it will indeed be a great and trying challenge to find a good student. However, you will find students. </p>
<p>Here is something that a recent HBS article has to say about Prof. Christensen,who devised the case method study for MBAs</p>
<p>&#8220;Christensen believed wholeheartedly in &#8220;the teachability of teaching&#8221; and that &#8220;a good class discussion can be developed, rather than merely left to the randomness of chance or genetic.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is the experienced person who has the knowledge and knows the mistakes and errors he/she made when building their biz ..they have gone thro the unchartered territory as it were and learnt how to navigate the choppy waters.</p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3159</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3159</guid>
		<description>@Rajiv: I think that was quite timely.

@Kamla: This is essentially the issue. The expectations between the startup entrepreneur and the &quot;mentor&quot; is far from matching. I think a good teacher also requires a good student to work with. Now that&#039;s a rare combination to come across, I find.

I spent the weekend in Delhi with a startup who wants a mentor who would let them do whatever they want to, and would just lend his name to raise funds. Unfortunately its not an isolated case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rajiv: I think that was quite timely.</p>
<p>@Kamla: This is essentially the issue. The expectations between the startup entrepreneur and the &#8220;mentor&#8221; is far from matching. I think a good teacher also requires a good student to work with. Now that&#8217;s a rare combination to come across, I find.</p>
<p>I spent the weekend in Delhi with a startup who wants a mentor who would let them do whatever they want to, and would just lend his name to raise funds. Unfortunately its not an isolated case.</p>
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		<title>By: kamla bhatt</title>
		<link>http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/a-new-kind-of-incubation-model-part-iii/#comment-3158</link>
		<dc:creator>kamla bhatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vijaysblog.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3158</guid>
		<description>Not sure if I agree with you. What is needed is a supportive system and creating an ecosystem and that means nurturing. It is amazing what can be achieved by hand holding and mentoring and creating awareness. 

Analogy: A good teacher can do a whole lot to help and mold students... a similar thing is needed for entrepreneurship in India.

Thanks,

Kamla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure if I agree with you. What is needed is a supportive system and creating an ecosystem and that means nurturing. It is amazing what can be achieved by hand holding and mentoring and creating awareness. </p>
<p>Analogy: A good teacher can do a whole lot to help and mold students&#8230; a similar thing is needed for entrepreneurship in India.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Kamla</p>
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